Exactly. That’s why the previous thread on Coronavirus Act 2020 was trying to get people to read the Act so that we could group learn and ask good questions about it to our MPs.
My own contention is, whatever you think about the virus, this piece of legislation is dangerous.
Now that we have it for another 6 months, look out for the two-monthly reports, read them and send your questions to MPs. Make them accountable for their actions.
Also continue to push the Repeal CVA Petition, as this might get us another debate in Parliament before the 6 months. My hope is we can get another Parliamentary review before Christmas.
all tory 'rebels' voted for the extension of CA2020 - which reinforces the fact that we are on our own. Parliament no longer has a role, we are not a democracy, the coup continues - KBF has to get more savvy about what's going on and how we can resist
I read the speaker demanded parliamentary involvement from Boris so members naturally believed it will be forthcoming! Gulls, the lot of them! With Pete above on this!
Yup, a pretty dire result, and disappointing to see the tory rebels eventually backed the government over the empty promise of some 'future say' at some undetermined point.
It's also disappointing to see that most of Labour didn't even bother voting at all. While I know that they wouldn't have been able to shift anything on their own, the fact that they won't even vote is a pretty damning state of affairs. They are supposed to be Her Majesty's Official Opposition yet they don't even take a stand on one of the most fundamental questions of democracy.
What...the hell? I don't understand, how has Steve "Covid -1984" Baker voted for this? OK, I never expected the act to be repealed (why would they relinquish their power), but wow......
Having just taken a look at Steve Baker's twitter I think he's still on our side. It's undoubtedly both disappointing and frustrating but I think we should be wary of being too quick to disavow our supporters as being 'shills', 'paid opposition' or similar. Such talk is divisive and unproductive. There was essentially nothing to be gained by him making a stand now and losing, when the Labour wouldn't back them. For him, this is a case of losing the battle so he can hopefully win the war.
As for us, we need to forget about government for now and take this to the local level. We are fighting an information war, rather than one of policy. We need to talk to people in real life (not just online forums) and encourage them to question the hypocrisy that's becoming hard to ignore. Once the ideas begin to enter peoples consciousnesss we can hope to encourage the mass civil disobedience we need. It is not the police that enforces the laws but the people. Resist moral blackmail and simply don't comply, this is how we win.
The positive thing is that there was a vote this time. And some MPs voted against 😀
That is progress from 6 months ago.
Let’s speak kindly to those that see the dangers of this legislation and keep drip, dripping to those that can’t, yet.
The next thing to ask all MPs for is the September report. And I suspect more importantly the s75 reports from May, July and September.
The latter I suspect is more important as this debacle is clearly not about disease and health. s75 is to do with money. Let’s highlight what is being done to our finances.
Agreed Siobhan. I was really peed off when I saw how few people voted against but I like the positivity in your post and we will live to fight another day. I agree your suggestions. Upwards and Onwards.
Oh my goodness just had a shock, my MPs lives! Sitting behind Sir Desmond Swayne looking bored with the whole proceedings, he obviously didn't vote,
what's new!
I take issue with the whole mess. Very strong facts put by Sir Desmond and we should feel good there is at least 1 MP fighting the same cause as us, but despite all the ranting and raving, every one of them believe they have to get on top of the virus. What virus? there is no virus but they have shown yesterday that there is a very large support for what this government is planning and no support for us whatsoever. Don't tell me that they don't know what is going on behind those closed doors, pathetic! of course they do we have just written hundreds of letters
and told them but my cynical nature makes me wonder if they read any. My revulsion was directed at the biggest traitor we have had for some time Ellwood standing there and begging they vote him in to bring the Army into play with their toys (tanks) to deliver and pickup vaccines, what was all that about. Mind you take a look at his eyes, those same eyes demonstrators mentioned when they came up against some of the police bullies drafted in to break peoples heads open on Saturday, he is on the dark side and it showed, manic. Where do we go from here everyone, more letters, demonstrations, what? ITS NOT WORKING, those threats keep coming thicker and faster, its time we took more action, our words to them are cheap, its been proven time and time again since this whole thing started and and the final straw was yesterday.
@Twinkle Toes I agree with you, totally. But, I see accepting all that you say means that other actions may not be in keeping with ideals of peace and love. So what to do?
Immediately, sorry if I am repesting myself we can ask for the Reports that should already be available - September report and the s75 reports for May, July and September.
The May report mentioned 7 Local Authorities had used s15 about Local Authority Care and Support. Which ones were they? The report doesn’t specify. Which way did MPs for these areas vote? Did they know this power was used in their area? What lessons have learnt? Have measures been put in place to make sure these powers are not needed again?
Keep an eye on other legislation that is going through and keep questioning, talking about it. For example there is one legalising torture and another giving powers to various bodies, including the Gambling Commision, to act illegally.
Learn about MINDSPACE
Behavioural psychology is important. That is what has got us into this mess.
For me, the first step in my communications with people, regarding this debacle is to include context to statements. All the numbers being thrown around often don’t have context. This allows the propagation of fear. So I am going to think carefully about the arguments I make and try to consider the context they are put in.
What to do?
Have a rant at the injustice and madness of it all. Scream and cry if it helps.
Have a nice treat for yourself.
Settle down and reframe our information, improve our information, learn more about the topics we are discussing (and the range of viewpoints - be able to advocate from all sides), learn more about the rules and tactics.
@Twinkle Toes I was worried that you might be losing your twinkle that comes with many of your posts. Glad you have it back.
@Bernard Carney War games 😉
This war game that we are in has been in the running for a very long time. I suspect from before the 1900s. And I’m only now trying to play catch up. So it feels a bit like fielding a group of 5 year olds to play a Premier league championship game.
This is clearly a psychological war too, so the better we get at understanding our own emotions and those of others around us the better we can play. Emotions are good because they give us information, inspiration, etc, but they can misdirect too. The art of misdirection seems to be very well developed by those that wish to control us.
The thing I am amazed at is how all the information is actually out there in the public domain but it has been buried in plain sight. There’s a lot. Which again assists the confusion that is being exploited.
Siobhan - Thanks for your concern - My Grandfather was one of the Jarrow Marches and I think I have inherited a little of what made him tick and proud to have passed it on to my son, so you have 2 of us fighting for KBF. Not too much of the giving in syndrome here so will be around for as long as it takes.😊
Exactly. That’s why the previous thread on Coronavirus Act 2020 was trying to get people to read the Act so that we could group learn and ask good questions about it to our MPs.
My own contention is, whatever you think about the virus, this piece of legislation is dangerous.
Now that we have it for another 6 months, look out for the two-monthly reports, read them and send your questions to MPs. Make them accountable for their actions.
Also continue to push the Repeal CVA Petition, as this might get us another debate in Parliament before the 6 months. My hope is we can get another Parliamentary review before Christmas.
Agreed Siobhan and now we know which MPs are working with us. Some of them clearly quite passionate opposition so we can maybe lobby them:
https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2020/09/the-full-list-of-41-conservative-mps-backing-bradys-amendment-on-coronavirus-regulations.html
well, that didn't end well did it!!
all tory 'rebels' voted for the extension of CA2020 - which reinforces the fact that we are on our own. Parliament no longer has a role, we are not a democracy, the coup continues - KBF has to get more savvy about what's going on and how we can resist
What? All the Tory rebels voted for the extension? I didn't know that.
I read the speaker demanded parliamentary involvement from Boris so members naturally believed it will be forthcoming! Gulls, the lot of them! With Pete above on this!
An analysis of what happened! Who to trust and who not to trust!!
Yup, a pretty dire result, and disappointing to see the tory rebels eventually backed the government over the empty promise of some 'future say' at some undetermined point.
It's also disappointing to see that most of Labour didn't even bother voting at all. While I know that they wouldn't have been able to shift anything on their own, the fact that they won't even vote is a pretty damning state of affairs. They are supposed to be Her Majesty's Official Opposition yet they don't even take a stand on one of the most fundamental questions of democracy.
You can see how everyone voted here:
Won't bother, thanks!
What...the hell? I don't understand, how has Steve "Covid -1984" Baker voted for this? OK, I never expected the act to be repealed (why would they relinquish their power), but wow......
Having just taken a look at Steve Baker's twitter I think he's still on our side. It's undoubtedly both disappointing and frustrating but I think we should be wary of being too quick to disavow our supporters as being 'shills', 'paid opposition' or similar. Such talk is divisive and unproductive. There was essentially nothing to be gained by him making a stand now and losing, when the Labour wouldn't back them. For him, this is a case of losing the battle so he can hopefully win the war.
As for us, we need to forget about government for now and take this to the local level. We are fighting an information war, rather than one of policy. We need to talk to people in real life (not just online forums) and encourage them to question the hypocrisy that's becoming hard to ignore. Once the ideas begin to enter peoples consciousnesss we can hope to encourage the mass civil disobedience we need. It is not the police that enforces the laws but the people. Resist moral blackmail and simply don't comply, this is how we win.
Only 7 Conservatives voted against the extension, well done to Sir Desmond Swayne for sticking to his guns.
The positive thing is that there was a vote this time. And some MPs voted against 😀
That is progress from 6 months ago.
Let’s speak kindly to those that see the dangers of this legislation and keep drip, dripping to those that can’t, yet.
The next thing to ask all MPs for is the September report. And I suspect more importantly the s75 reports from May, July and September.
The latter I suspect is more important as this debacle is clearly not about disease and health. s75 is to do with money. Let’s highlight what is being done to our finances.
Agreed Siobhan. I was really peed off when I saw how few people voted against but I like the positivity in your post and we will live to fight another day. I agree your suggestions. Upwards and Onwards.
Oh my goodness just had a shock, my MPs lives! Sitting behind Sir Desmond Swayne looking bored with the whole proceedings, he obviously didn't vote,
what's new!
I take issue with the whole mess. Very strong facts put by Sir Desmond and we should feel good there is at least 1 MP fighting the same cause as us, but despite all the ranting and raving, every one of them believe they have to get on top of the virus. What virus? there is no virus but they have shown yesterday that there is a very large support for what this government is planning and no support for us whatsoever. Don't tell me that they don't know what is going on behind those closed doors, pathetic! of course they do we have just written hundreds of letters
and told them but my cynical nature makes me wonder if they read any. My revulsion was directed at the biggest traitor we have had for some time Ellwood standing there and begging they vote him in to bring the Army into play with their toys (tanks) to deliver and pickup vaccines, what was all that about. Mind you take a look at his eyes, those same eyes demonstrators mentioned when they came up against some of the police bullies drafted in to break peoples heads open on Saturday, he is on the dark side and it showed, manic. Where do we go from here everyone, more letters, demonstrations, what? ITS NOT WORKING, those threats keep coming thicker and faster, its time we took more action, our words to them are cheap, its been proven time and time again since this whole thing started and and the final straw was yesterday.
@Twinkle Toes I agree with you, totally. But, I see accepting all that you say means that other actions may not be in keeping with ideals of peace and love. So what to do?
Immediately, sorry if I am repesting myself we can ask for the Reports that should already be available - September report and the s75 reports for May, July and September.
The May report mentioned 7 Local Authorities had used s15 about Local Authority Care and Support. Which ones were they? The report doesn’t specify. Which way did MPs for these areas vote? Did they know this power was used in their area? What lessons have learnt? Have measures been put in place to make sure these powers are not needed again?
Keep an eye on other legislation that is going through and keep questioning, talking about it. For example there is one legalising torture and another giving powers to various bodies, including the Gambling Commision, to act illegally.
Learn about MINDSPACE
Behavioural psychology is important. That is what has got us into this mess.
For me, the first step in my communications with people, regarding this debacle is to include context to statements. All the numbers being thrown around often don’t have context. This allows the propagation of fear. So I am going to think carefully about the arguments I make and try to consider the context they are put in.
What to do?
Have a rant at the injustice and madness of it all. Scream and cry if it helps.
Have a nice treat for yourself.
Settle down and reframe our information, improve our information, learn more about the topics we are discussing (and the range of viewpoints - be able to advocate from all sides), learn more about the rules and tactics.
Play the game honourably and better. Play to win.
It was just a moment - it has passed. I move on and there has been some good news today.
Siobhan, it isn't a game, it is war! Honour will get you nowhere! It has to be outright defiance in one way or another!
@Bernard Carney Thank you Bernard, it is not only me then.
With you Siobhan all the way.
@Twinkle Toes I was worried that you might be losing your twinkle that comes with many of your posts. Glad you have it back.
@Bernard Carney War games 😉
This war game that we are in has been in the running for a very long time. I suspect from before the 1900s. And I’m only now trying to play catch up. So it feels a bit like fielding a group of 5 year olds to play a Premier league championship game.
This is clearly a psychological war too, so the better we get at understanding our own emotions and those of others around us the better we can play. Emotions are good because they give us information, inspiration, etc, but they can misdirect too. The art of misdirection seems to be very well developed by those that wish to control us.
The thing I am amazed at is how all the information is actually out there in the public domain but it has been buried in plain sight. There’s a lot. Which again assists the confusion that is being exploited.
MINDSPACE
Siobhan - Thanks for your concern - My Grandfather was one of the Jarrow Marches and I think I have inherited a little of what made him tick and proud to have passed it on to my son, so you have 2 of us fighting for KBF. Not too much of the giving in syndrome here so will be around for as long as it takes.😊