This aint legal

Definitely. From what I've seen the only jurisdiction the police have is in criminal law these days, and all this fixed penalty BS is civil law (might be the wrong words), so if they stop you in a shop for not wearing a muzzle and try to issue a fine, they have no authority to do so because it is not a criminal offence. I've seen it said that you can question their jurisdiction, and if it comes to it ask what is the first sentence they issue when arresting somebody. They would answer with "you have the right to remain silent" as soon as they say that, you reply with "ok, I choose the right to remain silent" and then just walk away.

I've haven't tested this because I haven't been stopped at any time in a shop, and never worn a muzzle. It hasn't been issue for me so far.

I've also read that the law is contractual. So when they are arresting someone, they finish their speech with "do you understand?". What that actually means in legalese is "do you agree to stand under me in law" in other words, by answering "yes" you are contracting yourself into allowing them to have authority over you. Most police don't even know this themselves. If you answer "no" they have no authority. Obviously, things could get nasty from there on in if they are intent on arresting you.

Whether any of the above is correct, I don't know, so I would definitely agree that we need some form of advisory service or guide from qualified legal professionals as to how to handle certain situations.

Hi Neil. I can do that!

In the meantime, the Police will issue on the spot fines, they mean nothing. No more power than if I issued you one.

Just as a quick guide, I will cover it properly.

I dont know if you know this but you can be taken to court for breaking a fictitious law. If you do not challenge the law in court, you will be fined, imprisoned or whatever for a law that doesn't exist. - Real good system of justice!

Its ONLY when you ask the court under what law/section/paragraph you are being prosecuted that the judge/clerk of court will look it up and find that it doesn't exist.

If you don't challenge it, you will be found guilty of it. Even if it doesn't exist.

The best thing to do is challenge the fines in court. If you start arguing with the police, he will just say sort it out in court and in the meantime, you will be goaded into breaking one of the public order offences (swearing, shouting or whatever). Don't fall for it!

I WILL put all this down properly for people to use as a guide. I didn't know that there was a need for it I must admit.

Especially if the foreign channels were covering the event. Are you suggesting a Greenham Common type protest?

@stevehabberley Not exactly, probably best idea would be to divide ourselves among 3 shifts (8 hours) to fully cover 24 hours. Even 2000 people divided by 3 still too many people at once whole day and night. The Government won't be able to cope with it.

@Ed I fully understand, I was not accusing you of just moaning but I also see where you are coming from?

To my mind the Trafalgar square protests are full of issues. I believe that by using the square, the powers that be can easily control the whole thing. The recent displays by the TSG show us this. They are flexing their muscles. It is a closed area, easy to contain, thats why its being allowed there. If they tried to hold it in another less secure area, they would not be granted the rights. Secondly, I think that there are a number of people who are using the whole thing to 'build' their image, they can see a rosy future in the lights of the media.

I think that a small number of people, using the right venue and doing the right things can force the powers to sit up and take notice. My suggestions for the trucks is just one example. It has the benefits of being totally legal too. Trucks just moving slowly around the square. If you have any suggestions, please feel free to say.

@stevehabberley Agree with you on the issues of the trafalgar square protests. I've not attended any of the previous protests as London is quite a long way for me but I think it's still important to allow ourselves to be counted (even if it is to then be herded like sheep).

I'm not entirely against your protest ideas but personally I'm just not convinced we can force the governments hand if that is the route they are set on, with the entire MSM to boot. Because whether it's a 'peaceful' or 'militant' protest seems to be of little consequence. Regardless of your own political affiliations, you just have to look at the way BLM/Extinction Rebellion are treated (Essentially state sanctioned) versus genuine protests on topics such as Child Abuse or Immigration which get dragged through the mud. Even relatively popular ideas such as Nuclear Disarmament or Campaigns against the Iraq War were never able to generate any results.

To me, the number one point of resistance is simply not following the rules and 'guidelines' in the first place. Don't wear a mask, don't get tested, don't social distance, try to live your life as best you can. I know that may seem a shallow response but I'm struggling to believe we can simply 'win' by shouting loud enough.

@stevehabberley That would be a good idea. Do you know any truck drivers?

@paul Obviously I cant promise anything. To say I have access is true but limited at best. But I can try. That's all I can promise.

I think from Simon's point of view he needed to know he has the support and backing of people in the UK. I don't anyone would just go it alone from the off, regardless of how much money you had in the bank.

@Neil That's a fair comment.

I was probably a little hard on him earlier due to being angry at a number of things today - seeing about 60% of people in my local town walking around in the fresh air with muzzles on, maybe falling out with a friend in the pub this afternoon about all this, and then hearing BJ's condescending speech this evening lol.

I guess I've just seen too many sites over the last few months that are crowd-funding to 'fight the fight". It just feels, rightly or wrongly, like those with the ability to provide content, are now using that ability to profiteer from the situation. Especially as there doesn't seem to be any perceptible results.

And they will... and take pride in the fact that they are doing so.

To sort the problem we should protest outside Parliament daily until they drop the coronavirus act. Only persistence win.

This is because we are at a bit of a crossroads. it is quite obvious that peaceful protests are ignored. They mean nothing to BJ and co. I also think that there are some personalities that are 'building their image', Nothing more will be achieved until one side or other breaks rank. There is only way our side can break rank and that is to start active resistance. Gentle at first, maybe blocking London Roads with slow moving vehicles, closing down important routes, demonstrations in Parliament square, blocking access to the important buildings, all sort of disruptive stuff. If they ignore that, it needs to be stepped up a notch. Occupation of buildings or other sites of importance, still more pressure by further active measures. The IRA were masters of it. setting matchbox flares off in shops, harmless in itself but the pandemonium caused to the city by all the roads closed off. It was almost impossible to catch the people who set the traps unless you caught them in the act.

I agree with you about the preaching to converted thing. I don't know what else to do. I have tried talking face to face with a couple of people. They would not even admit to there being a movement that is fighting the cause. They even denied, despite videos, news reports, demos etc that anyone was objecting to the whole thing. I was told that I deserve to catch covid because I was the only one who thinks its a lie. Even suggested I go to the doctors because there was something wrong with me. To say they were in denial was an understatement. They got quite insulting saying that the government would not lie and they were the biggest experts on the subject. When I asked them to explain any one of the contradictions put out there by the government, they just said..'f**k Off you idiot' and walked away.

You have my utmost sympathy, Steve. It is frustrating and depressing and exhausting, but you are on the right side of history by trying to shine a light in this darkness.

@Veritas et Libertas Well, when they have the covid marshals knocking on their door and they are not allowed outside for 23 hours a day, they had better not complain because they did nothing when they had the chance that these actions will be implimented