For all those in the UK - Boris's new rule is complete nonsense. There is no enforcable law. The police have no jurisdiction to issue fines for anyone gathering in groups of more than 6 from next Monday... because it is not a criminal offence to do so, and the police can only deal with crime. Therefore you can all just ignore this ridiculous new "rule" because it's unenforcable - completely - the government are lying to the masses once again, so do not be bullied and intimidated into restricting yourselves - it is not against the law because there has been no law written, and even s21 of the coronavirus act 2020 which is written under civil law (not criminal law) is not legally enforcable, because it speaks in terms of "directions" that issue orders to force this that and the other, but only the judiciary, (courts and judges) have the power to issue directions; the only directions a government minister can make, are to do with finances. Therefore, everyone, just ignore all of this, because none of what the government are saying is true or enforcable, and none of it would ever hold up in a court of law - the government know this and are just trying to scare people into submssion. Do not be afraid, you are the ones with authority not the government, because we are sovereign, and your sovereignty affords you free will, personal boundaries and the right to say NO. The government are your servants = civil servants. You do not live in a dictatorship, you live in a repesentative democracy, therefore no one in the government, including the prime minister, has the power or authority to tell you what to do, they cannot dictate to you, so do not be bullied into submission.
Im actually sick of preaching to converted. *We* all know. What pisses me off is fact am banned from social media platforms when I'm not a social media person. I have been perm banned from DM for example, when I was one who questioned and challenges from start of this. Now they letting comments dissenting but perm banned me for this in march)April. I'm sick if it tbh. I don't even want to be here cos preaching the convert d so what point? I want to be on sites where they drones, but banned. Twitter banned me,DM banned. I'm not rude but etc is getting to me
I agree with you about the preaching to converted thing. I don't know what else to do. I have tried talking face to face with a couple of people. They would not even admit to there being a movement that is fighting the cause. They even denied, despite videos, news reports, demos etc that anyone was objecting to the whole thing. I was told that I deserve to catch covid because I was the only one who thinks its a lie. Even suggested I go to the doctors because there was something wrong with me. To say they were in denial was an understatement. They got quite insulting saying that the government would not lie and they were the biggest experts on the subject. When I asked them to explain any one of the contradictions put out there by the government, they just said..'f**k Off you idiot' and walked away.
You have my utmost sympathy, Steve. It is frustrating and depressing and exhausting, but you are on the right side of history by trying to shine a light in this darkness.
@Veritas et Libertas Well, when they have the covid marshals knocking on their door and they are not allowed outside for 23 hours a day, they had better not complain because they did nothing when they had the chance that these actions will be implimented
Well said, but you're preaching to the converted.
Sadly, the majority of the snews watchers will swallow BJ's BS as though it was caviar.
Time for @Simon Dolan to show his worth to the nation and prove he's not controlled opposition.
I've seen various places like KBF all purporting to achieve this or that, not yet seen any results, and all the while the totalitarian tiptoe continues.
To sort the problem we should protest outside Parliament daily until they drop the coronavirus act. Only persistence win.
This is because we are at a bit of a crossroads. it is quite obvious that peaceful protests are ignored. They mean nothing to BJ and co. I also think that there are some personalities that are 'building their image', Nothing more will be achieved until one side or other breaks rank. There is only way our side can break rank and that is to start active resistance. Gentle at first, maybe blocking London Roads with slow moving vehicles, closing down important routes, demonstrations in Parliament square, blocking access to the important buildings, all sort of disruptive stuff. If they ignore that, it needs to be stepped up a notch. Occupation of buildings or other sites of importance, still more pressure by further active measures. The IRA were masters of it. setting matchbox flares off in shops, harmless in itself but the pandemonium caused to the city by all the roads closed off. It was almost impossible to catch the people who set the traps unless you caught them in the act.
Exactly, there are not criminal laws, and therefore can not be enforced by the police. They are just hoping for the zombies to do as they told.
And they will... and take pride in the fact that they are doing so.
It's all starting to look like total bollocks. @Simon Dolan 's Legal Challenge https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/ is asking people to pledge to raise £300k from a man who's net worth is estimated at £200M+. That's pocket change for him. If I was in his position, I wouldn't be asking for donations to fund something I truly believed in. I'd be spending every penny I had equipping whoever was necessary to fight the fight in whatever way was necessary and with whatever tools were required.
This place is starting to feel like every Qanon place - just talk amongst yourselves and leave it to us. In other words do jack fucking shit.
Yep..... all of that and more! except if we are able to form real resistance groups, I cant think of how to find people. Real, Active and meaningful resistance is needed. I can appreciate that people did not react to the police charges on Saturday but it did nothing to take the fight to the enemy. These protests are 'playing' to the media....'look how good we have behaved' whilst the enemy impose still more restrictions
Why not joyning the protests of Stand Up X ? I think we should do it as they are active few days a week.
@stevehabberley I don't know about Saturday, I've had to take a couple of weeks away from it all to stop going mad and revive my brain cells lol.
I don't think anything meaningful can be achieved here - I mean, ffs, it's built on a wix app, on the cheap, when it should be on it's own servers and platform with secure apps where we can talk freely.
I agree but how can we find the people, perhaps passing leaflets, but at the same time we should join other existing groups who are already active in order to make the numbers. Then talk to them to organise other things as you suggested.
well, when you think about it, it would only need about 10 articulated trucks, moving very slowly around parliament square to completely gridlock the whole area and if one of those trucks were to lets say break down across the Whitehall junction or Westminster bridge then all hell would break loose. More importantly, there is nothing illegal happening, just trucks moving slowly, couple that with Trafalgar square protests, you now control the whole area. We would need to convince truck drivers to join
@stevehabberley I agree that it would definitely be more decisive action than a vague protest but I'm not sure it's great optics. If we want to get the world moving again, shutting stuff down gives off the wrong impression and starts to associate us with Extinction Rebellion.
@Ed Hi Ed We need to take more action than keyboard moaning at each other how tough it is, Any suggestions from your end?
I also understand that we may won't be covered by the MSM if protesting outside Parliament. But believe me, if we are there daily, the Government's officials won't be able to cope with it. And sooner than later The MSM will be there too. Among all platforms that are active in protests we could be easy 2000 people. Daily, that will make an impact to the Government.
Especially if the foreign channels were covering the event. Are you suggesting a Greenham Common type protest?
@stevehabberley Not exactly, probably best idea would be to divide ourselves among 3 shifts (8 hours) to fully cover 24 hours. Even 2000 people divided by 3 still too many people at once whole day and night. The Government won't be able to cope with it.
I can identify with everything you say, unless you sing the praises, FB bans you! Have you had the little pop up box telling you that you cant post anything?
I must admit that I am being convinced that there is a need for some kind of group that are not so much interested in moaning online or creating their own subgroups or whatever. The group needs to be prepared to do something. I'm not talking full blown IRA style terrorism, just something more than playing at protesting.
I think a quick a simple guide on what to do in the situations where the Police get hold of you would be a great help and also fortify people's resolve.
From what I can gather people are best to just keep their traps shut, take the FPN and then don't pay it?
Is that a fair summary? There's so many VERBOTEN things it's hard to know if all the penalties being thrown about to intimidate us are all FPN's.
An FAQ for noddies would be a godsend.
Definitely. From what I've seen the only jurisdiction the police have is in criminal law these days, and all this fixed penalty BS is civil law (might be the wrong words), so if they stop you in a shop for not wearing a muzzle and try to issue a fine, they have no authority to do so because it is not a criminal offence. I've seen it said that you can question their jurisdiction, and if it comes to it ask what is the first sentence they issue when arresting somebody. They would answer with "you have the right to remain silent" as soon as they say that, you reply with "ok, I choose the right to remain silent" and then just walk away.
I've haven't tested this because I haven't been stopped at any time in a shop, and never worn a muzzle. It hasn't been issue for me so far.
I've also read that the law is contractual. So when they are arresting someone, they finish their speech with "do you understand?". What that actually means in legalese is "do you agree to stand under me in law" in other words, by answering "yes" you are contracting yourself into allowing them to have authority over you. Most police don't even know this themselves. If you answer "no" they have no authority. Obviously, things could get nasty from there on in if they are intent on arresting you.
Whether any of the above is correct, I don't know, so I would definitely agree that we need some form of advisory service or guide from qualified legal professionals as to how to handle certain situations.
Hi Neil. I can do that!
In the meantime, the Police will issue on the spot fines, they mean nothing. No more power than if I issued you one.
Just as a quick guide, I will cover it properly.
I dont know if you know this but you can be taken to court for breaking a fictitious law. If you do not challenge the law in court, you will be fined, imprisoned or whatever for a law that doesn't exist. - Real good system of justice!
Its ONLY when you ask the court under what law/section/paragraph you are being prosecuted that the judge/clerk of court will look it up and find that it doesn't exist.
If you don't challenge it, you will be found guilty of it. Even if it doesn't exist.
The best thing to do is challenge the fines in court. If you start arguing with the police, he will just say sort it out in court and in the meantime, you will be goaded into breaking one of the public order offences (swearing, shouting or whatever). Don't fall for it!
I WILL put all this down properly for people to use as a guide. I didn't know that there was a need for it I must admit.