Well that went well! First of all, I DO FULLY SUPPORT THE CAUSE but In my opinion not much good to advance it was ever acheived at all yesterday(Saturday). NEVER was such an opportunity to really make a difference missed and thrown away by bad planning. Again, as mentioned in my last post, thousands of people Penned in, unable to do very much except shout. Police can do what they want, when they want and to whom they want. Does ANYONE think that Boris was sitting in No.10, shaking with fear because the people were showing their dislike for his policies. The people were hemmed in, controlled and never was a real problem to the authorities.
The march to Hyde park was left too late and had NO effect.
When will the organisers realise that a static group will not achieve a thing, the Marches should have left the square almost immediately, marching to the Palace and/or Parliament. This would have presented the Police with REAL problems, making the authorities allocate huge resources to monitor the event. There has been enough speaking and chanting about the rights and wrongs of COVID. Everyone there knows most of it already, that's why they are there, listening to it again is a waste of time. It is now time for furthernaction, no sit downs or any passive demos anymore. Anyone knows a moving target is harder to control and harder to hit and so lets get moving. If Boris knew that just a few tens of yards away instead of hundreds of yards away, people were now angry and showing their feelings, he would have been made to think a little bit more. I bet he is sleeping fine tonight, undisturbed by the protest.
The organisation for the demos MUST start being more imaginative, if they don't start doing something more than repeat the same formula of speakers around the square addressing the congregation, the impetus, the dynamics, the power and the meaning will be lost. People will not travel sometimes many miles from all four corners of the country to witness the same old thing again.
TO THE ORGANISERS - you are going to lose this fight unless you start to raise the bar. No army, because that is what we are, achieves anything by staying on the beaches, you HAVE to move the fight on towards the enemy otherwise you bog down and lose momentum. There is no point in trying to score browny points with the authorities by trying to show how good little citizens we were and how the organisers were able to run a civilised protest - THEY DONT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT. I can almost here them laughing, asking each other what they are going to do next. WE MUST make them sit up and think about things and this type of protesting is not the way to achieve that aim.
Germany - raises 850k -1.3 million protestors, we congratulate ourselves for raising a few tens of thousands. THIS HAS GOT TO BE RAMPED UP IF WE ARE GOING TO WIN.
Thats it people - rant over. I wish you all well and thank everyone who has made the effort. But we really must increase the pressure otherwise nothing will be achieved and we all suffer under this oppression.
I commented on your original thread and agree entirely with what you've said:
I was watching the live feed from 'Tyranny Finder UK' on YouTube and thought the demonstration had been scuppered from the start. If you watched 'Ruptly's' YouTube feed, it seemed no-one further than 30 feet from the stage would have heard anything......then when the police went in....my heart sank and my anger welled up. I've just posted this on Alex Belfield's YouTube comments. I agree with the original poster here......this protest has to get a lot more savvy. Here's an idea.......since the LAWFUL demonstration yesterday was UNLAWFULLY broken up, we need to protest in a much better way. It struck me while watching the proceedings on 'Tyranny Finder UK' channel, that the authorities have done everything to stop a LAWFUL demonstration, by not allowing videoscreens, by not allowing large PA systems, by flying helicopters overhead and finally, using force with the 'riot police'. EVERYBODY in this movement needs to get a lot more savvy. They (the authorities) did this because they were PREWARNED about a demonstration taking place. They succeeded because people were not organised. WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE PROTESTING A SUCCESS. As flashmobs have produced in the past, assembling huge numbers of people, who emerge from the shadows is something that no GOVERNMENT or tyranny could handle. Imagine for one second, if people were to converge on Matt Hancock's house....I don't know where he lives....but imagine 2000 people chanting outside his house? Or Chris Whitty? Or Patrick Vallance? or......you name it.......What about invading Media City (Salford) where the BBC broadcasts from? I'm sure other people could be equally creative...... WE ARE AT WAR, with an enemy that hides in the shadows. It's time we did the same.
Absolutely and fully agree, I really believe that any more of the same weak, limp organisation of these rallies, putting people directly in the firing line so to speak, is proof that the organisers are simply 'playing' a game. THIS IS NOT A GAME. In many respects we are FIGHTING FOR OUR LIVES. If they choose, and they have chosen, the way of violence to fight us, we then return the favour. After all, it cant be wrong if our illustrious leaders adopt that behaviour.
We Need the marches, we also need Guerrilla squads to bolster numbers where needed. If they want a war, lets give them war but lets make it organised and planned and not just haphazard and amateur. There are enough of us who know how to get the job done. We did the same for them in the past, now we do it for ourselves but above all WE DO NOT GIVE IN and WE DO NOT BACK DOWN - Rant over (again!!)
Imagine all the heavy plant equipment in the UK.....I wonder how many bulldozers it would take to block the exits of Number 10 Downing St?
I really can't disagree with anything you two saying. I watched on tyrant finder and it's very apparent that these officers were having a ball and government laughed. This needs to be mobile now and I hope the organisers listen to you both. Our authorities dont care how peaceful we are, lambs to slaughter yesterday was horrendous to watch.
We MUST take the fight onto the authorities. The fight is dying because the organisers are in their comfort zone and do not want to push things any further. If that happens WE LOSE and become prisoners in our own homes, all without prosecution or trial. WE CANNOT LOSE THIS ONE. This is the most horrendous abuse of our human rights in living history.
You were right about the protest, but I must add that the organisers were arrested earlier in the week which contributed massively to the shambles. They are on bail and one of them is forbidden from attending any more rallies. It was much better on the 19th - greater numbers and screens and a functioning sound system, the latter presumable confiscated yesterday. The first protest in August was supposed to involve a march past Downing Street and on to Parliament Square, but that was stopped by having BLM protesters at Parliament Square. They didn't even look like real BLM protestors - just standing still, occupying the space, and holding up one or two signs.
What should we do? It seems we need some kind of underground movement where people meet and plan in secret so that the enemy does not get advance notice. How could that be achieved?
Well, I know about the arrests but in my mind, the whole thing was wrong from the beginning. Just repeating the same old thing again was never going to work and by the time of the arrests, the plans were already made.
Although demonstrations/protests or whatever are required to be 'sanctioned' by the state but they can do nothing about a large group of people walking the streets. Thats not illegal and if 35000 people choose to walk the same route, then that's not against the law either. Its no different to football crowds leaving the stadium. Although proper planning is critical to success, we must use their own laws against them, not try to meet them head on, we will lose. Of course if those crowds were to be walking slowly, not simply hanging around and creating obstructions, then plod can do nothing. Nobody is breaking the law. If large trucks are at the front of the people walking, going slow because of all the pedestrians creating potential hazards, then they cannot be done for kerb crawling or anything similar. Now just imagine if these walks were around parliament square. Whitehall, Horse guards Parade, essentially blocking all of the financial areas of the city, with very little disruption to residents in the area as there are very few anyway, except maybe the queen and Boris. The resulting resources needed to manage such an event would stretch the Police, BJ would have to take notice.
They could not legitimately do a thing. They cannot charge in and arrest one or two people from the crowds as an 'example to be set' because they can then be prosecuted under the Equalities act 2010 for harassment. That is in addition to any other offence the police may or may not breach in the meantime.
In short there was nothing to stop people starting to walk away from Trafalgar square to anywhere in the city, if everyone walked the same route then so be it.
the August 29th protest did involve a march to Downing Street.
@Sheila Jacklin Yes but it was almost a small satellite march, we need to fill the streets, block the roads etc, the downing street and hyde park thing was a minor irritation to the authorities. We need to how real power.
Fantastic write up Steve. I remember replying to your earlier post and was perhaps a little sceptical but after attending the protest yesterday I'm with you all the way. It was a great showing in Trafalgar square but you're right that we need to move on from that now. The march to Hyde Park seemed a bit of a shambles in the end but it definitely had such great potential and energy there. We need to put that to use, and direct it upon something like Downing Street or the Palace like you suggest.
Thanks Ed - As you may have realised, I am a full supporter but I believe that the protests in their present form are a spent force. I also believe that BJ and Co are going to start introducing curfews, they are strictly following the Nazi model in control of the JEWS, and of course they will be blaming all of us for having to bring in such rules, again divide and conquer, that was done by the Romans! which will make it twice as difficult to organise such events. Therefore time is limited. We must therefore plan every event in a way that gives us maximum return for our investment (sounds like a banker but I am not!) and these protests are not doing that. As I said before, it is not an exaggeration to say that we are fighting for our lives, we are going to be crushed beyond all recognition if we allow them to win.
@stevehabberley Yup, I think we really need to get some better coordination. While I applaud the work of Simon Dolan and wish him the best in continuing to seek justice, it now seems that the legal challenge route is essentially blocked. This leaves KBF becoming somewhat a fringe group in what is a very splintered landscape.
You have StandUpX, one of the main organisers of yesterday along with Save Our Rights UK then you have various 'faces' like Piers Corbyn and David Icke who each have their own following. All of these have a couple of thousand followers in various places but there doesn't seem to be any main identifiable mass anywhere. I'm not on Facebook but from my perspective the information on what is being planned and when is always a little thin on the ground, and to be honest I'm almost surprised we get as big a turnout as we do with everything so splintered.
I fully support these groups for the hard work they are doing but I'd like to see them come together to provide a more methodical approach to messaging. As it is, it seems like there are too many websites, twitter accounts and facebook/telegram groups. Perhaps this is the nature of an organic movement but some level of centralised organisation definitely seems to be needed.
@Ed You have given me food for thought. I wonder if I could contact all these groups in order to form one huge movement. I can see that there would be power struggles and I dont know how to approach these. From my own point of view, I dont care who leads it. The fight is with BJ and his government, this is the war we must win. The internal politics will be a problem, - who leads it, who does what etc. I dont know how to get over that one. Any ideas in that direction?
Wales is having kids from 16 voting in these elections. Whilst I have reservations about this, we can tap into this group re the anger at the lockdowns!
Strategy, subterfuge, misleading, confusion, deception, obfuscation. The art of war by Lao Tse. We don't hurt anyone but we can use its wisdom. Why don't the organizers use aliases or willing elderly or disabled people's identities? Get organizers phones going to different locations to confuse.
Then we can have small secret id and passwords for being bonafides which the agents provocateurs will have a hard time obtaining.
Even just using essential oils, lavender, or having red socks or passwords and small things all help.
Are small loudspeakers available today? We can have messages on our phones sent out by those doing co-ordination and message trees, which consideration of the options beforehand.
Absolutely agree with this and have 100% agreed with this point of view from day dot. A protest is subjugation and nothing more. A march with the correct intentions to remove this unlawful government of occupation, which is our lawful right, is now the only way forward that I can see. Get us veterans together and weโll change the tide for sure. Iโm trying to get Major General Julian Thomson and Lord Sumption together as a team to bring this some clout.
Ok.. this is all great..........but you will need to find a far better more secure means of communication than this forum..............which is being read/monitored daily by the fascists!!! ???
Get your point but, short of pigeons and secret notes, there is none (?) All coms are bought and paid for and, in a way, even easier to pick up. I do have some old military means at my disposal for ultra secure, as and when required, messaging, but the talk and chatter on here is very low in priority for our beloved agents. First thing is to rouse this bunch on here and, when it gets to the point of organisation, then weโll โgo darkโ
@C.R.M I agree with you all, but have been thinking along the same lines as getting much nearer the culprits to get the message across. Demonstrating, sending letters galore (sorry Grumpy C I applaud your sterling efforts) to the same old address most are intercepted by researchers or secretaries and dumped as our glorious MPs mustn't be bothered by the mob. Start sending letters to their homes, most have neighbours, know who they are, there must be ways of getting those addresses. I agree that hemmed in and going no-where is no good and as you say makes a laughing stock of us all and the same old approach will deter people coming.
C.R.M - Ever since you let it be known you were ex military in a post I felt you may be our lead in to getting us organised. I sense a frustration and the need to move it all up a notch and I see reading all the above that its got to change. Never thought we would gain much this way having watched the huge crowds in Germany demo since this mess began and it hadn't got them very far. Governments have too much to lose and will not shift easily and as you say we have to find that loophole of a law that enables us to force them out. My reference to culprits was MPs getting all those letters we have written to them at the Parliament address sent to their home address include the family and they may have felt it was too close for comfort, on reflection that moment has passed, I think. A complement to you all here, together we could form a government, I'd vote for us!๐
I agree, I think all those on here who are ex military should lead the way, they will have the proper knowledge on how we do this - will await for next move from you lot. Away to make my soup now! ๐
@AutonomousAmy I'll be round sounds good. Pleased yo are back on form after your bad experience, good stuff. We have to get the laughing government turned around so that we are doing the laughing, I see the tide turning but we need to get organised and be a step ahead of all those that are watching and plotting to stop us. Something has to happen soon, god knows we are trying.๐ฃ
A little bit of cheer - I have been told of a family if six who were in the 'governments wouldn't do that' camp have now crossed over in wakefulness after witnessing yesterday's psychopathic and violent attack on free speech. Three have spent hours since Saturday reading and watching all they can in trying to 'catch up'.
Another two people similarly slapped into wakefulness after yesterday's unintended demonstration of how to wake humanity up with violence, have started discussions with family and fiends who are still in need of spectacles.
Only eight maybe, but we don't know how many more have seen The Light. There is so much going on behind the scenes that never makes it to forums, it is so easy to allow despair and frustration creep in - both intentionally created by the perpetrators. We know what to do with that!!
We are Many, They are Few.
Lovely post Barbara, thank you :) hugs X
Thanks for sharing such great stuff!
Exactly. As Max Igan (love the guy) has said, to paraphrase, โYou only need to wake two people each, and if everyone did that, weโd free the worldโ ๐
Sorry, friends, it is I who needs specs, I typed 'fiends' instead of friends, para 2, line 3, But then 'fiends' are what we see before us!
Barbara - Specsavers could make a fortune from us on this website. I am sure we all have square eyes, I know I have!
Barbara J - Lovely news, good news is thin on the ground these days. You got me thinking when you mentioned there's a lot going on out there which never reaches us here. Simon D says we have now got 17,000 (and rising) members on this forum. Is it me when I look at the box on the right hand side 'Following Posts'
the 'watching' figures always outweigh the 'comments' figures. Would it be wrong of me to ask' where is everybody' as the same names keep posting ( I almost feel as if I have another family), and you see very few new ones joining the interaction
but no where near 17,000. So I say to all those out there come on lets have more input, who knows you may have that all important idea that may help us solve this problem, get us out of this and get our lives back.
Twinkle Toes. There's quite a well known saying:
80% 'watch' while 20% do the 'work'.
Well, I say to all you people - lets make that OLD saying history, eh?! Lets flip it to 80% (or more!) who do the 'work'.
We ARE the people, we HAVE the power ! Lets make that change....we welcome you to jump on board. Come and share your thoughts... sometimes the most outlandish thoughts hold the key and pave the way!
Love and peace to you all x
@Gery W Well said!!