FOI request to PHE re asymptomatic transmission.

Re the masks request, PHE have today responded- in summary, evidence is weak that face coverings make a difference (taken directly from one of the 'rapid review' documents they provided:-

'28 studies were identified, but none of them provided high level evidence and 15 were non-peer-reviewed preprints (search up to 5 June 2020). The evidence was mainly theoretical (based on modelling or laboratory studies) and epidemiological (highly subject to confounders). • There is weak evidence from epidemiological and modelling studies that mask wearing in the community may contribute to reducing the spread of COVID-19 and that early intervention may result in a lower peak infection rate. • Evidence from modelling studies suggests that beneficial effects of wearing masks may be increased when combined with other non-pharmaceutical interventions, such as hand washing and social distancing. • Limited and weak evidence from laboratory studies suggests that materials such as cotton and polyester might block droplets with a filtering efficiency similar to medical masks when folded in 2 or 3 layers.'

This is the response letter:- https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/685031/response/1643446/attach/2/1031%20FOI%20Studies%20on%20effectiveness%20of%20face%20coverings.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

This is the rapid review document:- https://phelibrary.koha-ptfs.co.uk/covid19rapidreviews/

And this is one of the documents listed in the rapid review (I've not looked at the others yet):- https://phe.koha-ptfs.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/opac-retrieve-file.pl?id=5f043ca658db1188ffae74827fa650d9

Martin Murray - From what I have seen so far from their replies, their answer is 'we have no answer'. If PHE can't or won't give you any scientific evidence they have, or show you any research they have done on the wearing of masks or asymptomatic transmission, then it's obvious they haven't done any. I am waiting with baited breath to see what comes next. It looks like they are just stalling you, the same as they are stalling Simon's appeal. They can only buy so much time.

Update:- re the masks request, they have said they will reply by 30th September. Re Asymptomatic transmission, they have said the scope is too wide can I please narrow it, I've replied as follows:-

'Dear FOI team, apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Could I ask for assistance please in narrowing the scope as per the guidance given by the ICO :- "Where a public authority claims that section 12 is engaged, it should, where reasonable, provide advice and assistance to help the requestor to refine the request so that it can be dealt with under the appropriate limit."

If a telephone conversation or video (or indeed face to face) conference would be useful to achieve this I will endeavour to free up some time, in the meantime I will monitor this medium daily for your response. Apologies again for my delay.'

I'll post updates when there is one.

Martin.

I wonder if there is any point asking them to please provide both the evidence supporting mask wearing as means of impeding transmission, and against, and their documented critical assessment where they weigh up the two - it must exist?

Maybe they could also provide their risk assessment on the knock on effects of mask wearing on issues including the economy, people's long-term immunity, mental health, society, schools, children's cognitive development, marginalisation of those with health exemptions....

Surely, in theory, if the government were attempting to act in our best interests (ha!), they would have had to consider these things?

Good work Martin - you are definitely on the case. Well done.

Update PHE have missed the deadline of 15th Sept to respond, so I@ve sent them this reply:-

Dear Public Health England, Could you kindly explain the reason for the delay, these are fairly straightforward questions and the information should be readily to hand as it was surely used in support of the legislation introduced on 24th July. I must remind you that you are required by law to respond promptly, and by 15th September 2020.

Yours sincerely,

Martin Murray

(the request and chain of communication is here:- https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_effectiveness_of_masks_in_re#followup )

The 'asymptomatic transmission' information is not due yet, but I will post any relevant updates on this thread.

Martin.

@Ian M - exactly, that's why I've put the FOI request in.

I raised the issue of asymptomatic spread in another post. The issue of asymptomatic spread is critical because without it the lockdown zealots would be in a difficult position. Without the notion of asymptomatic spreaders, lockdowns which apply to everyone would be difficult to justify. It would not be possible to terrorise the population if the idea of asymptomatic spreaders didn't exist and hence not everyone will be a possible carrier of disease. How exactly do asymptomatic carriers spread the disease if they don't cough and sneeze which spreads droplets. Wouldn't asymptomatic carriers have a lower viral load which makes it less likely they will spread the disease.

I completely agree @Grumpy Cat .

In the meantime, this was a request put to PHE by a Mr Andrew Johnson asking for documents showing SARS-COv 2 has been isolated and causes Covid 19. This was their response:- https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/679566/response/1625332/attach/2/872%20FOI%20All%20records%20describing%20isolation%20of%20SARS%20COV%202.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Simply put, no documents held (the exact wording was 'PHE can confirm it does not hold information in the way suggested by your request').

Thanks @Grumpy Cat & @LivvyB - great work. Will post updates on this thread as they happen but it will be a few weeks.

Martin Murray - You are an absolute legend! Thanks for fighting our corner. Look forward to hearing the results!

And I put this one in a few days ago re masks:-

Dear Public Health England, please supply any and all copies of studies, information and communications (including internal & external email or written communication) pertaining to to the effectiveness or otherwise of face masks in reducing (or increasing) virus and bacterial infection rates within the public domain. Please also provide the same information and communications (including internal & external email or written communication) pertaining to the use of face masks within a medical setting.